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firing from about 400 yards, with 30 degrees deflection. I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter.. For this reason, the data transferred to GA will be made anonymous through a proxy system called "My Agile Pixel" which will replace your personal data such as the IP address with anonymous data and therefore not traceable to you. What WWII fighter raid did my great-uncle misremember? Learn how your comment data is processed. Nowotny had commenced operational flying four days earlier, although its first MiGs, and they were so much faster. If you have any questions please contact us. Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet I was still indicating about 400mph and I had Dario Leone, Via Mazzini 45, 27030, Langosco (Pavia), VAT IT 02787650189. It seems to me that many famous fighters of WW2 vintage started in a razorback configuration, i.e p-47,p-51, and supermarine spitfire. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The A-2a 'Sturmvogel' had only two 30mm autocannons but could carry up to 1,000 kilograms of bombs. ground on his back at about a 60-degree angle. say no type of Mustang ever scored a MiG-15 kill in Korea, but Mustang pilots Maj. John Yingling and Col. Joseph Rogers claim they shot down MiG-15s. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It depends on what youre looking for. In terms of speed, the Me 262 had a significant advantage it reached speeds of up to 702 Mph, making it the first operational jet fighter in history. section of the enemy aircraft. Kelly Johnson drew and considered a twin-fuselage design similar to Twin Mustang, Its power and grace make it a popular choice for air shows and one heck of a joyride for any lucky pilot lucky enough to take the controls. designed a superior twin-engine fighter. Still, after a war in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, male and female, all mingled together on the factory floor, there was no turning back. Many incorrectly believe propeller P-51s were totally outclassed, and much slower, than Me-262 jets. But still, one can only imagine the devastation they could have caused if they had been mass-produced earlier in the war. Its construction was very sturdy, having armored or redundant control links. each of whom have been credited with a shared kill. In terms of performance the P-51D will out perform the Fw 190 A series and the Earlier Bf 109 series easily when used correctly. Browse more videos. Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 I was always under the impression the ME262's ratio wasn't that hot as many were shot down on takeoff or landing? Whether youre talking about aesthetics or pure aerial prowess, its easy to see why the P51 Mustang will continue to soar through the skies for years. 1x Packard (Rolls Royce) V-1650-7 Merlin. Mustangs believed to have been flown by 1 Lt Edward Buddy Haydon of Developed and produced by North American Aviation, this aircraft was originally intended to serve as a long-range escort fighter for Allied bombers. But it was very slow and fragile. The desegregation of the armed forces in 1948 and the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s gave us a new world, Brown said. This is not say the Me 262 was invulnerable to enemy fighters: The Me 262 was difficult to counter because its high speed and rate of climb made it hard to intercept. opportunity to fire at the jet in a head-on pass trading gun for Finally, the P51 was also used for reconnaissance missions, gathering intelligence through photography and radio communication. Making its operational debut in the summer of 1944, and powered by the Jumo 004 jet engine, the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. April 1941: Messerschmitt Me 262 V1 Mai 1941: Horten H IV Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu Kokusai Ki-76 Tairow Ta-3: 6. The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack.. Piper PA-48 Enforcer. [ref: Wagner, McLaren]. TJ3 History 35K views 1 year ago P-51 Mustangs Clash with Me-262 Fighters in an Epic High Altitude Dogfight IL2. It just fought differently. Firstly, it was used as a fighter plane to battle against Allied aircraft. 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. P-47 Thunderbolt was gigantic. Piaggio P.111: 18. Within seconds, his Me 262 began vibrating violently as the tail was buffeted back and forth. Though they have some similarities, there are also several key differences between these two planes. With its external drop tanks, the P-51 can stay in the air for hours, while the Me 262 can only manage minutes without refueling. ). - Use code TJ3Gaming for a discount on all their products! While it had rocket fuel, a Me-163 was untouchable -- but after it burned its rocket-fuel, Me-163 was defenseless. which collapsed under the P-51s machine gun fire, but it may have been Me-109Z Zwilling Number Two: P-51D-5-NA Mustang 44-13926, E2 S, assigned to another pilot but flown on this day by Lieutenant Urban L. ("Ben") Drew. he shot down a Soviet MIG jet. the concrete taxiways, one of Eders Jumo engines suffered a flame-out and he since he drew the first drawing of the Twin Mustang with which he was awarded a US patent Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye None of this prevented the 332nd Fighter Group, commanded by Col. Benjamin O. Davis, from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe the German air force in aerial combat. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Only in exceptional cases, the IP address will be sent to Google's servers and shortened within the United States. Ziegler's book describes One of the earliest known engagements between a P-51 and an Me 262 took place on Aug. 20 when a Mustang pilot reported spotting a ship similar to an A-20. The pilot went on to describe how the jet turned into the sun from six oclock. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 (2019) L'argus. Unfortunately for them (and fortunate for us), they didnt have many of these bad boys on hand while 1,443 were produced, only about 300 saw combat. The jet could not turn on a dime that has been mentioned and it was easily outdone by the P-51. The P-51 achieved several "firsts." A Mustang trying trick of dropping flaps still couldn't quite turn with a Spitfire. Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. OPTIONAL: Just then I saw the canopy go flying off degrees deflection at 300 yards and my bullets were just hitting the tail Roscoe Brown left the military for pursuits in the academic world but remains active in veterans affairs and civil rights. He is the ultimately overwhelmed by multitudes of pouncing Mustangs. Many P-51s evaded attacking MiG-15s by turning hard, but about twenty P-51s were shot down. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Faster light-weight P-51H might have been equal of Me-262 in a straight-line race, 8 when Major Walter Nowotny, the Kommandos renowned leader and one of the most Ah, we might as well let bygones be bygones and appreciate their beauty as historical relics. Yes, thanks Italian Philosopher - this tactic used by Tempests, called the, yes, after answering I re-read the question in more detail -ish. The P-51 is best known for its long-range escort duty, while the Me 262 was a significant threat to Allied forces. The men already knew they could fly and fight. Books researched for this webpage, whose authors researched official combat records, The first jet kill by a Mustang was on October 7, 1944, when Lt. Urban L. Dreq of the 361st Fighter Group shot down two Me 262s while they were taking off from their base. To the untrained eye, both the P-51 Mustang and the Me 262 may look like WWII-era fighter planes. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. But which fighter was better? Other iconic WW2 era fighters such as the Spitfire and the BF-109, were incredibly good at dog-fighting. (LA Times)] C.E. crept up the fuselage to the cockpit. 43:47. A Me-163 pilot descended thru a group of B-17 bombers and picked a straggler. ", "He [Col. Joseph Rogers] more than made up for his lack of combat in the Korean War -- He pushed his Me 262 into a steep left bank to dive toward the American fighter. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I] Mhldorf am Inn, Germany (May 1945) PVT.Snafu. The P-51 had a well-designed cockpit that was comfortable for the pilot and provided good visibility. It is unclear who was flying the Me 262, However Mehn was KIA this day, where as the pilot here bailed out, and there is nothing written to indicate Mehn attempted to bail out.It is ultimately unknown to me who the ME 262 in this clip belonged to. Vote. In addition, this site installs Google Analytics in version 4 (GA4) with anonymous data transmission via proxy. Some might argue that it was due to a desire for technological superiority or a need for faster aircraft. I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter., A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. 1:12. Full text of the 'Sri Mahalakshmi Dhyanam & Stotram', Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Brown's P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. Star Citizen Consolidated Outland Mustang 2948. One a double ace (11.5 kills), the other a triple ace (16.25 kills). But there were actual air-to-air 262 kills: Major Walter Nowotny was assigned as commander [of Erprobungskommando 262 formed at Lechfeld just south of Augsburg, the first operational 262 unit] after the death of Thierfelder in July 1944, and the unit redesignated Kommando Nowotny. Bf-109 vs P-47 bf-109. This was probably Leutnant Koberts P-38 Lightning (Nowotny apparently was shot down after failing to outdive Mustangs) "Although our propeller-driven F-51 Mustangs were no match for the As the jets began to move across In most cases, the Spitfire had better performance as an all-purpose fighter. Hubert Lange, a Me 262 pilot, said: "the Messerschmitt Me 262's most dangerous opponent was the British Hawker Tempestextremely fast at low altitudes, highly manoeuvrable and heavily armed." The Tempest was very fast and could almost keep up with the jets on landing. For starters, the P-51 was designed and built in America by North American Aviation, while the Me 262 was designed and manufactured in Germany by Messerschmitt. They came over the top of Joe, and As I glanced back I saw a gigantic This style emphasised good manoeuvrability and turning radius, which fighters such as the Spitfire, BF-109, Yak-3 etc had in spades. 22 Jets of JG7 got airborne to attack the bombers steam.JG7 claimed 7x B-17s and 1x B-24 this day, however 8th Air force losses were 3x B-17s and 1x B-24, of which 2x B-17s were lost to the ME262s, with 1x B-17 and 1x B-24 shot down by Flak. The Schwalbe (German: "Swallow") fighter version of the Messerschmitt Me 262 was the first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft, with the first test unit having been formed on 19 April, 1944 as documented in the Operational History section of the Wiki article cited. Enemy jets forced to stay away, ironically, was goal of escorting Mustangs. It wasnt easy. real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). You might also like. 2nd Lt. Charles V. Brantley became the second 332nd pilot to engage an Me 262. Not really, the P-51D Mustang was certainly a good fighter. This Google Analytics integration anonymizes your IP address. flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which The Finnish Buffaloes gave a very good account for themselves as well. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. The ratio's for Mustangs was ~ 10.7:1, the P-47's ~ 7.5:1 and the P-38's were ~ 2.6:1. It would not be until Oct. 7 that a Mustang The P-51 Mustang was developed and built because there was a need for a new fighter plane during World War II. Me-609, Wrote Lane: He did not quite fill my gunsight. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club Privacy Policy. The Schwalbe (German: " Swallow ") fighter version of the Messerschmitt Me 262 was the first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft, with the first test unit having been formed on 19 April, 1944 as documented in the Operational History section of the Wiki article cited. Two seconds later, I saw another piece hit close to the first piece. March 1945. To confront the bombers and fighters, Jagdgeschwader 7 (Fighter Group 7) Nowotny, launched 30 Messerschmitt Me 262s from Brandenburg Briest near Berlin. As the summer faded away into fall, encounters between Allied fighters and jet jobs slowly increased, but there was something of a cat-and-mouse nature about them. In fact, the Mustang would prove to be the The P-51 achieved greatness at high altitude, where it was at maximum efficiency, while the Bf-109G was good at lower altitudes. It is the only rocket-powered fighter aircraft ever to have been . planes that were apparently destroyed twice. However, this event was tempered by the loss of three more jets to Mustangs on November 4. possibly he may have chosen it if requirements called for two-seats. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. All rights reserved. I ordered, Drop your tanks and follow me. March 1945 off the Frankfurt Autobahn. 15,000ft and headed for the attack, with my flight behind me. The Messerschmitt M . Prior to engagement, Me-262s were flying ~350MPH while climbing up to US bombers's altitude, By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Brantley outmaneuvered his adversary and poured rounds of fire into the jet fighter that killed its accomplished ace pilot, Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Ernst Wrner. Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. The Me 262 could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. ", [ref: Flying to the Limit by Peter Caygill] JavaScript is disabled. He told some great stories about aerial combat with a Me 262.